Believe what you wish, but you don’t have a Divine right to chastise and pillory those who don’t. I maybe a "heathen non-believer", but I sometimes wonder who understands the teachings of the person they labeled Christ more ...... as I understand it he was supposed to have taught tolerance and understanding. I see little around on this thread - more a competition as to who can prove the sky is falling tomorrow, or who can conjure up a more dramatic scenario.

In my 56 years on the planet to date, I have lost count of the number of times I am told by a religious zealot (some believe it, most like Bandwagons) that the world is socially corrupt, doomsday is due next week. Fifty years later we are still here. Despite that I do believe in an individuals right to believe what they like, and have fought and been shot at doing so. If individuals wish to believe in what I consider to be an unproven myth, that’s genuinely fine, if it gives them an inner peace that’s a wonderful thing.

What is despicable, is when those individuals have the arrogance to believe they can "save the world" and insist on painting this myth of a white knight savior when connected with an unproven myth. This wallowing in self righteous condemnation of all those who don’t "believe", is arrogance of appalling depth. The difference between them and the average "non-believer", is the latter is ultimately prepared to give the believer their rightful freedom to believe in what they like.

The same freedom is rarely given in reverse, it breaks the myth and introduces an uncomfortable reality into their lives, that they face privately, but hate seeing the same dilemma publicly. Dont wallow too much, you ultimately drown, even the person labelled Christ in the Fable tried to teach humility, not much evidence of it here.

Just out of curiosity, what is your opinion of this thought?

Person A lives a filthy life. He rapes, pillages, burns, steals, kills - you name it. All his life. On his death bed, he repents - truly repents - and finds Jesus. He goes to heaven.

Person B lives an honorable life. He's kind to people. He helps his neighbors. He works for charity. He gives of himself to others in all ways. BUT...he sees Christianity as lacking, and never believes any of it. He goes to hell.

And a second thought I am curious about your opinion on. If Christians TRULY believe that a person who lives in Christ all their lives goes to eternal paradise when they die, then why are they always crying at funerals? I'd expect there to be a big party. "WOOT! Dad has crossed the line into Paradise!"

I think that very fact betrays the truth.

As a brief aside, thank you Sadaiho for eloquently stating earlier that everyone is Buddhist and in different stages of knowing it. John Q. Public, or should I say "Joe User"?, seems to think that Buddhism is a religion. That, of course, makes it an affront to Christians, who, by and large, are so immersed in their own dogma, they literally can't see the forest for the trees. I don't really buy that you and everyone else is a Buddha, but that one statement was nice.

Folks, true Buddhism doesn't ask anything from anyone. We all must walk our own paths. Christians, be well while walking yours. I wish you the very best because our beliefs are not mutually exclusive (at least from a Buddhist standpoint...I know they are from a Christian standpoint, and perhaps you should think about that briefly. After all, what does it mean when Buddhists are more forgiving than Christians? Hmmmm?)



Brilliant, Zydor. Thank you. This is wisdom.

"Person A lives a filthy life. He rapes, pillages, burns, steals, kills - you name it. All his life. On his death bed, he repents - truly repents - and finds Jesus. He goes to heaven.

Person B lives an honorable life. He's kind to people. He helps his neighbors. He works for charity. He gives of himself to others in all ways. BUT...he sees Christianity as lacking, and never believes any of it. He goes to hell."

"For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire men to work in his vineyard. He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard. "About the third hour he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. He told them, 'You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.' So they went. "He went out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour and did the same thing. About the eleventh hour he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, 'Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?' " 'Because no one has hired us,' they answered. "He said to them, 'You also go and work in my vineyard.'

"When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, 'Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.'

"The workers who were hired about the eleventh hour came and each received a denarius. So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 'These men who were hired last worked only one hour,' they said, 'and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.' "But he answered one of them, 'Friend, I am not being unfair to you. Didn't you agree to work for a denarius? Take your pay and go. I want to give the man who was hired last the same as I gave you. Don't I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?'

"So the last will be first, and the first will be last." (Matt.20: 1-16)

Also, if you work in someone else's field, or your own field, you don't get a denarius from him. You might work hard, harder than anyone else, but it was in the wrong field.

Can you not see that that makes God out to be a pompous asshole? I read He's a loving God. Hell, I'd cut Person B more slack than he would according to you, so what does it mean that I am more forgiving? Nothing to you, I'm sure, because you have it all figured out. I suppose I should just offer my congratulations. Your place in heaven is secure. Awesome, man. Have a good time.



And your answer to this? All I heard (which is what I expected to hear) was the deafening sound of crickets.

This is the most misleading statement ever said about how God judges humans on Judgement Day. this is due to the misunderstanding of:



This statement doesnt mean the above example. Considering the fundamental principle that "Justice and Mercy " are God's rules for judgement the last statement means that your time of believing (your work starting time) is immaterial. What counts is your productivity, honesty and sincerity in doing your work regardless of the lenght of the time you spent doing it.

That is a misconception of what God say. On death bed, it is too late to repent. repentance is not a escape hatch. it must be followed by honest regret and good deeds to validate your intention.



yes Believing in God, not necessarily Christianity, is a must for any work to be accepted. Nothing really starnge in that. Regardless of your knowledge and intellectual output you dont expect to be say a "Yale" Graduate if you dont believe in their existence and accordingly didnt even apply to join? do you?

If you dont believe in His existence, how do you expect your work to be considered by Him on the day of Judgement? however, since He is Just he promised to reward your good work as you intended to be. i.e. as a good way to live THIS life. He promised to reward you for that also in this life. That is what you worked for and that is what you get.

If however, you believe in Him and you do the good deeds for His sake He promised to reward you in two ways: In this life and in the hereafte.

Fair, isn,t it? you get rewarde according to what your intentions are.

Well, that's what I was trying to say with the quote, that the amount of time you believe is immaterial.

The passage Jythier put forth is one that many don't get. If one is looking at it from a human perspective it doesn't seem fair at all. Those who work all their lives for God inherit the same eternity of those who came in at the last hour? Doesn't seem to make sense until you think about it.

Think about it this way. A baby born into a family has mom and dad and siblings. Child grows up with memories of happy and sad times with said family. Lots of family trips,photographs, school and sport events, etc. Later in this child's life the family decides to adopt a 17 year old. This new addition to the family is now part of the family but has missed out by not being part of the family for the first part of his life. He has no memories. He has no box of artwork in the closet nor pictures of the family all together with him included. But he is now family nonetheless. He has no choice but to go on from here.

It's the same with the workers. They didn't have the love, joy, peace and deep knowledge and relationship of God until late in life, perhaps not even until near death. He missed out. Those that had God their whole life shouldn't complain. They lived better lives if they just thought about it with God in them.



I'll answer this. What are you talking about? I've been to many funerals and there is a BIG difference going to one who died a believer and one who did not. There is JOY in the room. Sadness too but the sadness is not the same as going to an unbeliever's funeral, one with no hope of ever seeing this person again. I've seen many Christian funerals that were indeed celebrations. It doesn't mean one isn't going to still cry. It's for the pain of separation they cry. I mean, don't people cry when others move away? It's the same thing.

This is a joke, right?

Yale has never claimed to love everyone though. Yale has never asked to be worshipped, or claimed omnipotence or omniscience. Subtle differences, really, but important nonetheless.



But they clearly didn't. They could have been loafing around in the marketplace having a good time and just waited until the 11th hour and then got the same pay. Instead they did a day of backbreaking manual labour and got paid exactly the same as the cleverer ones who waited. They got shafted big-time - they should have listened to the union reps in the marketplace and held out for a better deal which involved working hours that could support a more healthy work/life balance.

If that example is supposed to make God look good then it's not working; it just makes him look like a cheapskate, or a pompous knob-jockey as the good Mr Razor pointed out.

oh yeah???

First who said that Yale doesnt love everyone?

Second, They have their own conditions, rituals and many other criteria that they use to decide if you are accepted or not. Comon ..... i never expected you to ask that. If you look at it closely it is easier to be accepted in Heaven than into Yale .... and i really mean that. Just because they dont call it "worship" it doesnt mean it is not. God's rituals and conditions are much more democratic and lenient than Yale.

You are correct. the misunderstanding of that quote gives God a bad reputation for sure. But people still insist on it and try to manipulate their way around it. it makes Him look very .... i cant even say it. but you know what.

It is another misunderstanding to say anyone knows who is and who is not going to paradise. That is God's call ON THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT. He never promised anyone in advance that his decision will be in their favor only it will be: Just, Merciful and Compassionate. The actual result is unknow but to him and him alone. Anyone who takes Him for granted is in big trouble.

Your original quote left no doubt that not only time is immaterial but also was the work done itself. And that is the big problem with the misunderstanding of the quote. Time is immaterial. Work quality, intention, and amount arenot and they are the criteria for getting paid. The example you mentioned is sooo undgodly as you can get.

as you can see from other's comments, these kind of quotes and misunderstandings give God and Religion in general BAD name.

But that's it Cacto. If you are planning on waiting until the 11th hour you may not know that it's the 10th hour that your time is up! We have no idea when we will draw our last breath. Besides that, we're not going to fool God. It's up to him to allow us into his home in heaven. If that's our goal, to do what we want while all the while thumbing our noses at God until the 11th hour, don't you think he'd know? I don't see this in the parable that Jythier brought up. The workers found out about the great job opportunity and applied for the job. While they all received the same end wage, the others got benefits along the way by being with and knowing the owner.

Besides all that, working for God, while it can be frustrating at times, it's also filled with unexplainable joy that cannot compare with working for the world. Christ said when you come to him, he gives us abundant life; something the world can only try to counterfeit.

As far as union reps? Who needs them. We've got Jesus! He's worth more than all the union reps you can supply....LOL.



well maybe I went a bit overboard but I was basically saying that people are going to cry at funerals no matter what. I mean if people cry at others moving away why wouldn't they cry at funerals as well? To a Christian death is nothing more than a change of address when they say goodby to another believer.

This week I'm going to a woman's conference in Boston where there will be thousands of women from all over the globe meeting together to worship God from all denominations and walks of life. It's called "Woman of Faith." This has been a yearly event for many years all over the country. One of the women in the forefront of all this, comedian and writer Barbara Johnson, died this year of cancer. She asked that we do a "clapping ceremony" for her at her death. She wants us to clap because she's entering the gates of heaven where her husband and two sons will be waiting for her. No tears, just clapping.