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It Doesn't Mean What They Want It To
Published on September 21, 2012 By Jythier In Religion

The government’s got it wrong.

For a while now, there has been a push to redefine what freedom of religion means.  Freedom of religion comes from the following:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Here’s what people seem to think it says:

Congress shall not let anybody holding public office exercise their religion.  Anybody who works for the government cannot exercise their religion during work hours.  All exercise of religion outside of strictly religious organizations is prohibited.   Government money cannot go to any religious organization, even if it provides a service better or cheaper than the government could provide.

What I’m saying is that the violation of the Constitution wasn’t when we had the Ten Commandments at the court house.  It was when we removed them.

Now we have the issue of the prayer before starting a public meeting.  Everybody on the committee agrees with it, but people who aren’t involved are up in arms about it because it brings religion into government. You know what?  Those are people in the government.  And the law doesn’t say they need to stop praying.  The law says that you, concerned citizen, cannot stop them from praying.  That’s unconstitutional for you to do.

There’s a bunch of backwards rules that are coming out of the justice system because they can’t even read a document that spells it out clearly.  The very law of our nation that is supposed to keep the government from being able to stop us from praying, celebrating, and exercising our religion has been misinterpreted to mean that they MUST stop us.

I would urge any Christian specifically, because most of this seems to apply only to us, to fight back in two ways.  One, don’t let them trample on your rights.  Two, don’t trample on the rights of other religious groups.  If a Muslim wants to pray, too, that’s HIS right and you shouldn’t stop him, either.   Show the world that it is religious persecution against the Christians instead of just a societal struggle to eliminate all religion from public life.  If it’s not, we’re going to end up in the same place as the other religions.  But what it feels like, is that we’re going to end up with a country that doesn’t allow Christianity, but allows every other religion.  I hope I’m wrong.


Comments (Page 4)
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on Oct 18, 2012

Here's some things you don't have to do to be saved, according to that passage.

Stop being gay

Stop murdering people

Stop sleeping with your side piece

Etc.

on Oct 18, 2012

Too bad about those who were 'helping' Tsunami victims.  That's very sad to me.  They should have helped everyone first.  Sometimes physical needs should come first, in order to open a door to the spiritual need.  If they were going to pick and choose, they should have helped those nonbelievers first - the believers go to heaven if they die.  It doesn't sound right to me what they were doing.  It does sound like exploiting - what kind of conversions are you going to get from that, anyway?  Foolishness.

 

on Oct 18, 2012

Jythier
God doesn't tell me to stone homosexuals on sight.  That was part of a legal system that was given specifically to the Jewish nation, God's people, people who were supposed to be set apart and holy as a nation.  I am not of that nation, so I don't have to follow the laws to that nation.

 

Jesus came and gave many examples of grace (to you, common sense) where he, for example, didn't stone the woman caught in adultery, but let her go. 

 

If you don't trust Jesus to take away your sins, a just God is going to punish you for them.  If you do, a merciful God already punished Jesus for it, by His choice.  So really, you know the way to heaven, but you choose not to take it - why are you blaming God?  He offers you eternity with him, but under his rules, or you can go your own way and have no rules in eternity.  It wouldn't be just for him to let you get away with your sin, but the only thing stopping you from not going to hell is YOU, not God.  It's not even 'do this' or 'do that' to get in, it is just 'believe Jesus was God, came to earth, died on a cross to take the punishment for YOUR sin, because you are a sinner, and then rose from the dead on the third day.'  Look, it's obvious to anyone that it had to have happened - GFT will say I'm stupid for thinking so, but it's true when you look at the context that the disciples were CRUSHED when Jesus died, and would not have recovered had he not risen.  The sect would have died THEN, and there would be no New Testament today, unless Jesus had risen.  It existing doesn't make sense if the eye witnesses didn't verify the story in those days.

 

ExpressoKid, you are free.  Free to do what you want religiously.  It's a guaranteed right from the Constitution.  God also gives you the free will to choose him, or choose something else.  Yet you say, "I'm not free because of hell!"  No, you're still free.  There are just consequences for exercising that freedom, just like there are consequences for all things.

 

Jewish Nation??? Was Jesus not Jewish? Is that what you're saying? That the God Jesus spoke with on the cross, isn't the same God that you worship? When did that get twisted around to feel better in your pocket? Are you saying, that the God that made the old testament happen, is not the same god that had made the new testament happen? What god are you referring to? Or are you really referring to Lucifer, because it sounds more to me that you're worshiping the ideas of Lucifer, than the ideas of the Christian god.

If you really think that the old testament does not apply anymore, then tell me where it says in the new testament, the god make a mistake with the old testament and it's only the new testament that apply... Please do that for me.

 

So okay - What you're saying is, that I have freedom - as long as it is the "right kind" of freedom I choose. If I choose the wrong kind of freedom, I will be punished. Can't you see how messed up that is? How can some freedom be either "right" or "wrong". If there is such a thing as "wrong freedom" there is no freedom at all. Christianity does not promise freedom. The Christian god does not promise freedom. So constitution or not - I am not free, because Christianity, by default, doesn't want me to be free - because according to Christianity my type of freedom is a wrong kind of freedom.
 

Here is a little list, that indicate clearly how the Christian god does not support neither freedom or tolerance of anyone that is not worshiping him:

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests   (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

 Kill Fortunetellers (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

 Death for Hitting Dad (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

 Death for Cursing Parents (Proverbs 20:20 NAB) (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

 Death for Adultery (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

 Death for Fornication  (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

 Death to Followers of Other Religions (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

 Kill Nonbelievers (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

 Kill False Prophets (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

 Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

 Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night (Deuteronomy  22:20-21 NAB)

 Kill Followers of Other Religions. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB) (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

 Death for Blasphemy (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

 Kill False Prophets  (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)  (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)

 Infidels and Gays Should Die (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)

 

Let's not forget a few passages from the supposed peaceful and oh-so-wise Jesus:

"Do not suppose that I [Jesus] have come to bring peace to the earth.  I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.   (Matthew 10:34)"

"I am the vine; you are the branches.  If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.  If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away an withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.  (John 15:5-6)

 "So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.  To those who sold doves he said, 'Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!.'  (John 2:15)"

"He [Jesus] said to them, 'Go!' so they came out and went into the pigs, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and died in the water.  (Matthew 8:32)"

 

 Come on! This should set off several alarms in your head that something truly is not right. That maybe - just maybe Christianity is the religious version of a Nigerian Computer scam.

on Oct 18, 2012

Jythier
Too bad about those who were 'helping' Tsunami victims.  That's very sad to me.  They should have helped everyone first.  Sometimes physical needs should come first, in order to open a door to the spiritual need.  If they were going to pick and choose, they should have helped those nonbelievers first - the believers go to heaven if they die.  It doesn't sound right to me what they were doing.  It does sound like exploiting - what kind of conversions are you going to get from that, anyway?  Foolishness.

 

 

"Sad for you?" You should be thrilled! They are convinced they are doing the work of Jesus and saving a spot for themselves in heaven. So you should be happy for them. But you're not - because it is wrong. Even you can see this. If any religion can be corrupted and used to take advantage of people, it is a flaw not only in the construct of the religion but also in the god behind the religion. Why not leave this corrupted version of religion called Christianity and carry your own belief in your heart, which is not in conflict with your way of life. Each individual carry a seed of existence, that grows in to something unique. This unique construct can not be named, because it is different for each person, as it should be. Your beliefs are not the same as the beliefs of the nest person. Will never be. For you to call yourself this or that, does not fit together with the concept of freedom. If you're free in your development, it also means that each individual ha a unique set of beliefs, which again means that no belief is more right or wrong than the next belief. It also means that the belief you carry would be incompatible with another person around you, which makes preaching obsolete.

In other words - You're created in the image of your god. God has no religion, therefore you can not have a religion either. God does not worship, hence you should not worship either, and so forth. It's not so hard to understand the non-corrupted type of religion. Filter out all the bullshit, and what you have left is individuality, anarchy(in its true meaning), and true freedom.

on Oct 18, 2012

Jythier
Here's some things you don't have to do to be saved, according to that passage.

Stop being gay

Stop murdering people

Stop sleeping with your side piece

Etc.


Still these things are spoken of as "wrong", right? That's the point... 

on Oct 18, 2012

GirlFriendTess

Quoting ExpressoKid, reply 40Reply #40 ExpressoKidNice to have you here on JU. Hope you have fun. Well said by the way.

 

Thank you for the welcome. Can't guarantee I'll be around for super long, but hopefully I can insert a couple of useful 5 cents here and there

on Oct 18, 2012

Jythier
Also, I paraphrased the idea behind many scriptures.  If I quoted actual scripture I would give you the reference.  But that doesn't mean it's not Christian.  If we went with that, we'd have to say that the rapture isn't Christian, the trinity isn't Christian, because the words are not mentioned in scripture... no, they are, but they are words that describe things that the Bible talks about over many passages.

 

Far most of Christianity is bits and parts stolen from other non-Christian places and then "Christianized". I've seen several stories  and quotes, that are written as part of the Vedas published by Christians as Christian. Even pagan holidays were stolen and Christianized by the Christians. Funny thing is, that the Christians can't see what's wrong with holding on to stolen goods and keep claiming that it is "their" goods. The right thing to do, is to give back what belongs to the right people. Same with cultures and countries. Mexico as one example also got stolen. Huge cultural monuments were destroyed(and are still being destroyed) by Christians... Tolerance and Christianity is not compatible. You can tell me it is, but the actions of Christianity say that there is no tolerance in Christianity. What Christianity actively has shown me, is a highly narcissistic behavior, which is strange, because with a perfect and all-powerful god to back up the Christians, there should not be a need to go and destroy other cultures or brainwash little kids.

on Oct 18, 2012

Jythier
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

Romans 5:8

"when we were in our sin Christ Jesus came to die for us."

Romans 3:23
"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,"

Romans 6:23
"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

2 Corinthians 5:21

"He who knew no sin became sin for us, that we may be made the righteousness of God through Him."

Romans 10:9-10
"that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."

Romans 10:13
"for Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved."

You can do whatever, but if you don't do Romans 10:9-10, you can't get into heaven.  Confess, believe.  Easy.  Open to all.





What if I don't want to go to the Christian version of heaven or hell? What if I want to go somewhere else, like Valhalla, or simply just have eternal life here on planet earth? What if I end up in this Christian heaven and I am not agreeing with that heaven(which I know I won't). Wouldn't an all-powerful god be able to grant me alternatives that could make me happy? Wouldn't an all powerful god be able to make everybody equally happy be default. Why should lesser beings be punished by a larger being just for failing to worship the larger being? It sounds to me that this god is mostly a bullying dictatorial dramaqueen.

If I was an all-powerful god I would not feel threatened by lesser beings. Why? I would be able to wipe them out in a split second if I wanted just by creating "non-existence", the same way you delete a faulty typing, using the backspace key. Why organize floods and all that dramatic stuff? Just hit the "delete"-key and it's over with in an instant. This Christian god is really not that smart - If the Christian god really existed, I would fight till my death such a god. Most 5 year old human kids would make better gods than the Christian god...

on Oct 18, 2012

Not all people who claim to be Christians are Christians.

No Christians are perfect.

Also, Mexico is not the USA.  They don't have our constitution.  I'll let Mexico worry about Mexico for now.

What is the 'Vedas'?

Also, anywhere where Christianity has become an official or preferred religion is a place that will soon be acting non-Christianly, in the name of power for the non-Christians who were able to usurp the power of the church to their own devices.

on Oct 18, 2012

ExpressoKid; I have, well not anymore, dreamed about heaven, and cannot phantom it. Honestly I think the fabled heaven will be  ... well empty actually. All Adam did in Genesis was to take a bite from a fruit after a talking snake (no vocal cords) convinced Eve to become knowledgeable (sound familiar). Who in their right mind could do so little wrong and not be likewise condemned for eternity whatever that means. Anyway, I thought of chess boards, concerts, sports facilities, mountains to climb, seas to swim and dive in and a universal internet … eternal peace. Whoa … well then I woke up with a start realizing that everything I value, everything I enjoy and everything I would like to learn more about are all earthly things (normal I like to think) and therefore have no place there. All I can envision is sitting at the feet of god basking forever in that glory with harps playing background music. Considering what Christian folk say and don’t say Lucifer was never given a chance to speak for himself or even allowed to present his case. If I were a gamester willing to play this game, that alone would make me wonder.

on Oct 18, 2012

Jythier
Reply #54 Jythier
The Vedas is a set of Indian documents that predates Christianity by more than a thousand years. The bible is a plagiarist wet dream come true. There is virtually nothing in the bible except time dependent names and places that has not come from the pagan religions before it that it despises to this day.  The reason Genesis is particularly screwed up is because the OT Jews insisted that their version of creation be incorporated with the NT Jews version, those that would eventually be called Christians. That is why different things appear created at different times (days).  I would be happy to go over Genesis again with you if you like, as if. And if you cannot even muddle through the creation, of what use is the rest of your bibles?

on Oct 19, 2012

Jythier
Not all people who claim to be Christians are Christians.

No Christians are perfect.

Also, Mexico is not the USA.  They don't have our constitution.  I'll let Mexico worry about Mexico for now.

What is the 'Vedas'?

Also, anywhere where Christianity has become an official or preferred religion is a place that will soon be acting non-Christianly, in the name of power for the non-Christians who were able to usurp the power of the church to their own devices.


Hahaha - Come on! What kind of Christian is more Christian than the other then? Can you truly tell the difference and pass that judgement? Seriously - You come to debates and defend Christianity without being able to know what kind of Christianity is "true Christianity"? Maybe even with the arrogance that you know the YOUR version Christianity is the true version of Christianity? Nah - Come on! Sometimes I truly wish that Christians could be more like Jesus, and not just pretending to be worshipers of something they don't really understand. Join a football fan-club. It works just the same as in Christianity. People spending a lot of time on something they believe in, but doesn't produce any result useful for anybody, other than the members of the club.

I'll also skip the mexico comment, because really... If you can't see the connection we wont get any further on that one.

About your question on the Vedas. You have Google right at your fingertips. Why ask? I have seen you quote from Wikipedia before, yet you... what? Was too lazy to look up the Vedas?
https://www.google.com/search?q=Vedas&aq=f&oq=Vedas

I also know this for a fact. There are many religious groups that create one profile on an internet community, and then they rotate in using the profile. In other words - I think that the profile "Jythier" is a group of three or four people, and not just one person. Often it is young people that has close to no knowledge about anything else than the bible, their parents and minister, priest, whatever and the occasional headline they read on billboards the pass. Come on! Give us some meat here to work with and not the usual repeated arguments we have answered and grinded in to the ground millions of times since the start of the internet. 

on Oct 19, 2012

GirlFriendTess
ExpressoKid; I have, well not anymore, dreamed about heaven, and cannot phantom it. Honestly I think the fabled heaven will be  ... well empty actually. All Adam did in Genesis was to take a bite from a fruit after a talking snake (no vocal cords) convinced Eve to become knowledgeable (sound familiar). Who in their right mind could do so little wrong and not be likewise condemned for eternity whatever that means. Anyway, I thought of chess boards, concerts, sports facilities, mountains to climb, seas to swim and dive in and a universal internet … eternal peace. Whoa … well then I woke up with a start realizing that everything I value, everything I enjoy and everything I would like to learn more about are all earthly things (normal I like to think) and therefore have no place there. All I can envision is sitting at the feet of god basking forever in that glory with harps playing background music. Considering what Christian folk say and don’t say Lucifer was never given a chance to speak for himself or even allowed to present his case. If I were a gamester willing to play this game, that alone would make me wonder.


It's actually amazing that in despite of so many contradictions, that these people don't raise questions and follow up on the bad answers they are given. To me, Hell sounds more like the holiday paradise, I would enjoy, rather than the heavenly nothing-ever-happens-or-moves form of existence.

Don't forget Lilith. She was the first wife of Adam. She didn't like the way Adam treated her(actually Adam couldn't satisfy her sexually) and she went to complain the god. But god(as a male) took Adams side, which pissed off Lilith. From here on the story goes into branches. Some stories say that the snake was Lilith herself, wanting to punish god and Adam by poisoning Eve. Some say that Lilith left, but first created the snake to get back it God and Adam. Lilith was the first to stand up to god. Lucifer came later... But actually the concept of lucifer was not added to Christianity before Christians had an encounter with the Celt god Cerunnos. If you compare the biblic description of Cerunnos with the Celt description, you will know where the Christians got their "Satan" from. Fucking pathetic. But that's a trademark of Christians - Stealing other concepts and take credit for it. Lying, deceiving, violent, hateful, discriminating, malicious... Of all things in the world - Christianity should be the religion that should be made illegal... or better yet - the three Abrahamic religions.

on Oct 19, 2012

The problem with internet forums is that we don't have to dialog at all - you could just look up every counter-argument to everything you say.  Why didn't I look up Vedas?  Because she brought it up, and we were having a conversation.  That's where two or more people are talking about things.

 

It is my understanding that every other religion requires some sort of behavior change in order to be saved.  Christianity requires no behavior change, but behavior changes are evident after salvation anyway.  That's the difference.

on Oct 19, 2012

Jythier
The problem with internet forums is that we don't have to dialog at all - you could just look up every counter-argument to everything you say.  Why didn't I look up Vedas?  Because she brought it up, and we were having a conversation.  That's where two or more people are talking about things.

 

It is my understanding that every other religion requires some sort of behavior change in order to be saved.  Christianity requires no behavior change, but behavior changes are evident after salvation anyway.  That's the difference.


*sigh* Is Christianity perfect? Are all Christians perfect in behavior? Is that what you're saying? Be careful now, because with each answer you provide, there are people out there laughing harder and harder at you, and I really don't mean to exhibit you as a public joke...

Hint: Read your reply #54 

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