I understand your desire to serve God, and how you view that as conflicting with your video games. What I suggest is, if you do want to still play computer games, just set aside an hour and mark that as your game time. Kind of as your 'me' time. I have done that on occasions, I'm single however so sometimes I'll play much longer, but then I won't play at all for weeks. But computer games don't waist your time, ultimately blaming the game sounds counter productive.

How is lesuire time sinful? I'm sorry you have to explain this one to me. In the scriptures, I believe its in Romans, where Pual commends us to do ALL things to the glory of God, and then later on he says do not sin merely because we are saved. I take sin to be something more than enjoying something that society views as a waist of time. For example, there a societal sins, and then there are sins which seem to be against God himself. Petty theft sometimes falls into this cateogry because of the seven things God hates. But no where do video games qualify as a sin as far as I can see.

Very true. I remember my local priest talked about a story from the Bible in his homily where a woman went to donate the two coins she had to charity. He said she is a better person than Bill Gates, who has donated so much money to charity, because she gave up all she had and Mr. Gates still has a nice stack of money.

We are human. We are not perfect. We must strive to be perfect as the woman in the story, even though we will never achieve perfection on this Earth. Does that mean that if you don't give everything you own to the poor that you'll end up in Hell? I don't think so, otherwise Heaven would be a very empty place. I'm fairly certain it is not a sin to not give to charity, however, giving to charity is a wonderful thing.

"I have lived for 26 years and I have never once had a nightmare with some kind of horned deamon or felt "Satin's presence" or any of that nonsense."

Satan is present all around us. Any time you've been tempted to do the wrong thing (and don't tell me you haven't) Satan was there. Satan manifests himself in the temptation of sin. He tries to get you to take the easy and sinful path. That doesn't mean that whenever you see your brother's birthday cake sitting on the table with nobody around that a horned beast is going to pop up next to you, it means Satan is the one saying in the back of your mind, go ahead, take a slice. The Devil manipulates, he does not interfere in our lives directly. For example, go look at Genesis where he gets Eve to eat the apple, or when he tempts Jesus in the desert.

"Now, lets look at the 20 year old Hindu boy. The boy lives a good life that puts are American lives to shame. He gives to the poor, is completely unselfish, etc. But hey, he dies without knowing Jesus, because nonone told him. So he is screwed now forever????"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invincible_ignorance

What this article means is that if someone did something without knowing it was wrong, they are not punished for it. If this boy had never even heard of Christianity by the time he died, I think he's excused.

I think he would be in Limbo/Purgatory with the opportunity to move on to Heaven.



Satan's impact touches everyone in the sense of desires/temptations. A hot girl walks by and most men will look. Even if you don't intend to look or will never do anything (ex: happily married). You do it without thinking and succumb to those built-in lustful desires. As long as you're sorry, feel guilt, and don't give in to those temptations then your okay. Some of these built-in morals are there from birth while the rest is from your life.

I'm an accountant also. I guess that means I know everything too, right? NOT! Computer and video games are not bad unless they have excessive violence, (blood is everywhere and you get points for slatering), or pornography. I don't play any games rated mature.

The same thing goes for movies, for me, I don't wath rated R movies and there are a lot of dumb pg-13 movies out there that don't have any plot what so ever. They just show off as much skin as possible and swear up a storm. I believe that what harms children will harm adults. A person is always a person. We don't mutate into another creature magicaly when we reach adulthood.

If people feel guilty for playing GalCiv2 and a bunch of other great games and believe mankind is evil becuase everyone isn't in Africa then go ahead and sell your house and everything you own and go to Africa and I'm sure your have a wonderful time.

The family is what should be our most important "possession", if you will, and the problems in societies across the globe are a result of the destruction of familiies. God has defined marriage as a union between a man and a woman. No court, senate, or government body can change the decrees of God. Civilizations can only break themselves against them.

It seems that many people enter into marriage poised to flee at the first sign of inconvience. I believe that divorce is only necessary and warranted when abuse or any situation is going on that will destroy a person's self worth. The roots of all problems in marriages are from at least one spouse being selfish. When married couples go out of their way to be kind and don't keep a talley of who did the dishes yesterday and who took out the trash last week but instead truly love eachother, then you have a marrage. Love is an action not a feeling. It has been said that when children see their father's perform acts of kindness to their mother's and know that their father's truly love their mother's that nothihng will be of more benefit for those children.

If you want to have a tizzy fit about computer games, fine, go on a crusade. I grew up playing video games with my Dad and other family members. If children feel a need to play computer games all day that should be a signal that they are missing something; like quality time with their parents.

Well, if I understand correctly, he's a fallen angel. I'm not totally clear on this, but apparently angels were given a limited form of free will, just as humans were given free will. The precise origin of satan is not clearly stated in the Bible, nor is the precise cause of satan's fall given.



This usually boils down to the free will issue: Apparently God doesn't want to force us to do anything, so he allowed this to happen so we all have the ability to choose our destiny.



"Horned demon" is false anyways. Like all spiritual beings, satan actually has no physical form.

Where do you get this nightmare stuff? You're just going farther and farther from what we really believe into more stereotypes. You haven't the faintest clue what we're about.



So - do you believe in forgiveness? The 80 year old guy was horrible in the past, but turned his life around, and now you want to hang his life around his neck as a burden he can never remove? If you knew about the story of Saul, later called Paul, you'd already know that God is very forgiving.

As far as the hindu boy, that's a very good question, and is considered one of the harder questions of Christianity.

Even though I do not have a complete answer, consider these things:

-Revelation says that people from all nations will be in heaven, so he has some way of handling the issue.

-Christianity is very large - we have missionaries in the remotest places, even in places where there is little contact with the "civilized" world, and in places where Christianity is persecuted.

-It is believed that Jesus died for all people, not just to some narrow band of people. God's mercy is shown many times in the Bible, and many people who are not Israelites or Jews are praised for their faith.

-God need not operate with just Christians and paper books. He is, after all, believed to be omnipotent, so it's possible he could use other means to get people to know him.

-The Bible indicates that there there is indeed a subconscious understanding of it. Even if people don't have a clear idea of the gospel from a Christian, they already instinctively have an understanding of ethics. (Romans 2:14-15, 10:18)

-Many non-Israelites know about God.
--The Magi at the birth of Christ.
--Job was from the "East," indicating he was possibly not necessarily an Israelite, but he had incredible faith and knew a lot about God.
--There are other examples in the link below, as well as a better explanation of the subject.

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/hnohear.html

-The Bible emphasizes that it is those who push themselves away from God, those who purposefully reject him, that are in danger of going to hell. Those who haven't heard about him aren't necessarily rejecting him.

So yes, I do believe God has a way of taking care of those who may not have heard from a Christian or from the Bible, and I still believe they can go to heaven.




Anecdotal, indeed. Right now we have no idea what the true nature of near death experiences are, or whether people are really seeing things that are real or not. Right now, they're not much more than an interesting phenomenon.



Many churches believe this, but my own church believes this is actually a form of works righteousness and rejects it. We believe that it is God who makes somebody a Christian, not their own actions. My church believes that repentance is an effect of faith, not a cause.

Honestly, it seems you maintain a willful ignorance of Christianity in order to create your idea of an "evil god." You call him evil even though you know nothing about him! And as long as you don't know anything about him, you feel free to paint your own picture of him, no matter how inaccurate that picture may be.

I'll be blunt: You don't know enough about God to be saying he is evil. You're only familiar with a bunch of whimsical stereotypes that have built up over the years and have no reflection of what we really believe. I'm a big fan of doing your homework. I like to do research. Obviously you've never researched this for yourself.

Why should I believe you if you've never done any research, if you've never taken a close look at our religion?

As long as you never do your homework, and never read the Bible for yourself to see if it truly reflects the stereotypes you have, then you are correct: This conversation is useless.

I go to a Baptist Church every Sunday (although I don't know why - except that I have some friends who attend). Every Sunday it is the same blasted thing from the pastor. "Put your faith in Jesus if you want to be saved from eternal Hell". An hour long worship survice can be summarized into the above statement. It is a complete waste of time because it is the same blasted thing just said a slightly different way. I don't know, maybe baptists are wrong, because I am fairly sure they believe in the "fire and brimstone" Hell.

Look, I think about this stuff every day. I also at one time truly believed in Heaven, Hell, and in Jesus like a true Christian. But let me tell you something, I started to go nuts, because all I could think about was how everyone else is going to Hell because they don't practice their faith in Jesus. I read this book by a Mark Cahill which talked about spreading the word of God through Jesus. He opens his book scaring people about the eternal aspect of Hell, which all Christians at least agree upon: the eternal aspect of Hell, whatever Hell is.

See, the eternal aspect of Hell, irregardless of what it is, is what makes Hell so terrible. Also, what you call as people rejecting God, are simply people rejecting Christianity, because in their minds it makes absolutely no sense. I still have morals, don't rape women, steal, etc. I also believe in God. Just not the Chrisitan version of God, which I think, makes Him look evil. Look, sending a soul to eternal Hell for whatever reason is an utter abomination of sense and reason I don't care what you say. Now, sending someone to Hell for a thousand years? Sure, maybe Hitler deserves that. But 233,442,444,222,434,224,222,555,222,111,999,999,999 + years????????????????????

If my son "rejected" me his whole life, would I chain and lock him in a dark closet for the last 20 years until he died (the eternal seperation theory)??? Would I burn him alive for 20 years? (lets assume some twisted science found a way where you can burn someone, repair the skin, and then burn them again, over and over)????? If I kept my child chained and locked in the closet and told him it was too late for him to be "saved" for 20 years, and someone found out, I am sure I would be in the news as one twisted and evil mother f#@$##$.

It is impossible to comprehend what eternity really means. I mean an eternity of playing galciv 2 DA with no breaks would be absolute Hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But eternal seperation from God???? So you float around in blackness forever and ever??????????????

I mean, I would feel so sorry for Adolf Hitler if he had to spend an eternity playing galciv 2 DA. An eternity of any one thing with no change would be infinite evil because it is infinite. Adolf Hitler doesn't deserve an eternity of Hell. If you say he does, then I say it makes complete sense for you to kill your child if he can't tie his shoes fast enough (oh but I told him he can beg forgiveness in my dead grandfather's name!!!!!) It makes sense to punish one case of rape with 80 years of utter torture. It makes sense to burn someone alive if they took your set of markers. Afterall, you are just following God's example. Punish finite acts with infintie punishment!!!!!!!! (of course it is impossible for us humans to punish with infinite punishment)

Anyway, in Mark Cahill's book, as supporting evidence, he used a near death experience of someone who supposedly saw a fire and brimstone Hell to support his argument for Christianity. Curious, I decided to look up some info on near death experiences to see if thousands of people had seen Hell when they had a near miss with death. To my amazement, the stories people tell from near death experiences show God to be loving and caring. A just God who will punish you appropriately but not with an eternity of anything. One form of punishment may actually be reincarnation as a sick child in Africa!!!

Free will? Man I hate free will!!!!! I liken free will to putting a baby on the grand canyon. One wrong move and the baby falls to its death. We are like infants. We don't know what happens when we die, only what other people tell us happens when we die. And if I choose the wrong path? If I make some bad choices but am an atheist? To Hell I go!!!!! I am like the baby who has fallen. As a parent, would you allow your infant "free will" to crawl at the top of the grand canyon where the baby might fall???? Why does God allow us free will, allows Satin to exist so he can tempt the hell out of us??? So we can just fall into utter ruin??? Why doesn't God just snuff Satin out of existence right now and tell us himself what to do so their is no room for doubt?????

Maybe I don't know all the details of Christianity or what exactly Christians believe. But one thing I am fairly sure of is Chrisitans believe in an infinite Hell. And I just don't see how an infinite Hell makes God out to be anything but a monster. I just don't see how an infinte Hell isn't an utter abomination of sense and reason.

Also, you should do your research on near death experiences before you cricize them!!! As long as you never do your homework in finding out what very early Chrisitans believed in and looking at all the evidence, you are right, this conversation is useless!!!! Your refusal to look at other evidence (near death experiences - which you believe are a bad form of evidence) is likened to my refusal to read the bible, which I think is a TERRIBLE piece of evidence!! God's word??? Why are their multiple versions??? Why is their a Koran also??? Is it possible that man crafted the bible in the over 2,000 years since its inception to create an utter abomination of the truth?? No, thats impossible right!!! No countries or priests would dare change the bible to gain control of the idiot masses right???

How about we make a deal??? You attend other services like go to a Hindu service, go to a Jewish service, spend time reading about near death experiences, and I read the bible front cover to back. Oh what?? You can't follow this deal? Why not??

This is one of my main problems with Christianity. It allows people to just blame their desires, weaknesses, and personal shortcomings on some mythical boogieman.

Amen!!! The fault is our own, no one elses!

Do you think Baptists have a good idea of what the Bible teaches?

Did they have Bible studies that go into depth about what they teach? Do they take a look at the original Hebrew/Greek during their studies? The Bible is a translation, you know.



Not very deeply, it appears. And it appears you've ignored my primary argument: People send themselves to hell, God doesn't.

In addition, you're building up quite an emotional argument. You don't like it, therefore it's evil.



I don't know this person, and from the sounds of it, I don't like his theology anyways. I wouldn't say he's a good representative of our religion.



All it means is you can make your own decisions. If you want to be somebody's slave and have somebody else make all of your decisions for you, then I guess Christianity is the wrong religion for you.



If there's no doubt, then there's no choice. Besides - would you really believe him if he did such a thing? What about other people? How convincing would this really be?



There are multiple translations. The Greek and Hebrew are the same.



There's nothing preventing people from writing their own books.



Sounds like your Baptist friends and the book author Mark Cahill have done such a thing.

I'm not Baptist, so I'm going to disagree with them on a lot of stuff. Same with Mark Cahill: Just because he claims to be a Christian and wrote something doesn't mean I'm going to agree with it.



Actually, if you want to be accurate, the child kills himself because he can't tie his shoes fast enough.

Here's an interesting quote from Glenn Miller's article:

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/gutripper.html



Glenn Miller's article is very long and multi-part. Here's another part that may be of interest:

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/gr5part2.html

Interestingly enough, you switch the image of hell from being a "fire and brimstone" image to a "doing the same thing over and over again for eternity" image - who is to say your new image is accurate? Who is to say you do the same thing over and over again in hell?

I think a better image of heaven/hell is one of a kingdom (a common illustration in the Bible): God creates a new kingdom, and invites everybody in. Inside the kingdom is much rejoicing and happiness, because the King is wise and just. Outside the kingdom, the King has no control. There is much crime and lawlessness outside, because the King is not there.

So, you are saying that the King should kill everybody outside just because they make themselves miserable? If that were to happen here on Earth, the King would be accused of genocide, and would indeed be accused of being evil! Seems like he can't win either way, eh?



If you tell me which religion (or philosophy) you are, I'd be glad to study it so I have a good idea where you stand.

I've read a bit about near death experiences (I'll abbreviate it NDEs), actually. I found an interesting website where a person believes that dreams are actually a non-physical soul leaving the body, and it's connected to the body through some sort of "cord." The person also believes that there's only one place a soul goes to, and that in this place there's a center of goodness, and that all of the evil people are simply further away from this center, but can't go very near because it will destroy them. Earth is a place where they can improve themselves to get nearer to this center. This person claims to have studied many dreams and NDEs.

Is this similar to your own beliefs about NDEs? If not, then what do you believe?



I agree!

Actually, given that Christianity is all about faith, not questioning things, and serving the divine, I think it is the perfect religion for one who wants their decisions made for them.

I tried looking at those christian think tank links yesterday, I couldn't continue when the responder started in with the "it is not our place to question" and "god is good because as the supreme being he decides what is good" tripe.

Actually, you are both right. There are multiple translation of multiple versions, of the anthology that is the bible...which, contrary to popular belief, was written independently by multiple human authors, and later assembled by the church. Oh, also, a lot of it was written before punctuation had been fully developed.

From what I understand, the different "versions" of the Greek/Hebrew are actually largely the same, with only a few minor differences. In nearly all cases, it's an easily fixable error that does not change the meaning, like a spelling error.

There are no known cases in the Greek and Hebrew where the error is something that would fundamentally change the meaning of the text and have a large impact on our beliefs.



Odd, I haven't heard otherwise. Sure, we believe that God helped them, but we do not deny that different people wrote the Bible.



I'll be sure to add that to a "Bible Trivia" game.

BTW, a history of the Bible can be found here:
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/bibleorigin.html

Perhaps Earth is "Hell" and all good people are angels, there are way to many sick things going on here to be created by a "Good God". I believe only in a supreme being with unimaginable power, not a good or evil one. Who are we to judge something we know so little about? As a matter of fact who am I to suggest my theory when i have not met this god? We have no right as small insignificant beings to attempt to record and write about events we have no knowledge of or that cannot be proven real. Humans will always be ignorant and that includes me. If you think of it on a cosmic scale we are nothing.